https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq1-k7-iRV1ZdE5JRy1COS0wMjVBM3hXNjVOUXdnTEE&hl=en_US
With the addition of the Cow Mangler 5000 yesterday, I just had to write up soldier. I got through the Damage over Time(DOT) chart, and something felt off. Some told me I didn't have the full grasp of soldier's capabilities, I mean this showcased only perfect aim against a single opponent.
Then it hit me, Splash damage. How do I compare splash damage? I thought for a second about running splash damage vs different sized groups of opponents, bu that just wasn't right. I mean a gun that does more damage vs one opponent will continue to outperform against multiple opponents.
So, I finally decided to run the numbers on a single opponent moving at full speed away from the rockets trajectory. This is where things got interesting.
Last things first, we'll start with the new Cow Mangler 5000. The 1st impression I get from this gun is "this thing blows". Not only does it kill all enemies with Pyro or more HP slower than the Default Rocket Launcher, but with the 3 second charge time for the minicrit-splosion, and the reduced damage on buildings, suddenly even mini sentries become threats. So how does this rocket fit into the Soldiers normal play style? Simple: It doesn't. This is not the gun for people who enjoy playing Soldier how Soldier is meant to be played. This is the gun for players who main the lighter classes, like Pyro or Scout who want to try their hand at soldier, and prefer the hit & run style of play. That said, it does have an upside that fits relatively well into the Soldiers normal play style, with only a small change. With the CM5K's Charge shot, you can prefire corners with a minicrit, with the added bonus of afterburn. If you hear a ding, switch to your shotgun, turn the corner and finish them off. Kills even overhealed heavies faster than any other Rocket Launcher.
Next in line is the 2nd most recent gun: The Liberty Launcher. The increased speed of this gun without the drawback of a smaller blast radius makes it excellent for killing squishy classes, even when they're moving at full speed. If you switch to shotgun immediately after your clip empties, you can even take down a heavy faster than with the default rocket launcher.
Black Box: Similarly to the liberty launcher, the Black Box + a shotgun is great for surviving combat with heavies, and sentry guns (especially if you have the whole tank buster set). It's definitely a niche gun, and the lack of a 4th rocket really screws in longer encounters.
Both of the above guns, the LL & BB are great for single enemies. Liberty Launcher shines with squishy classes, while the Black Box shows its merit with the heavier ones. They still both fail in comparison to the default launcher when it comes to an overhealed heavy + a medic. Sometimes you just need more rockets. But don't let that get you down, just travel with a group!
Direct Hit: This launcher is good for only 1 scenario: When you know you can hit. If you're defending a choke point, it's great. Any other time, it falls way behind the other guns.
Default Rocket Launcher: Similar to most default primary weapons for other classes this gun is a the all a rounder. Not sure if you're be on offense or defense? Need to defend against single players as much as large groups? This is the gun for you.
--
I was asked on the TF2 forums this question:
"Doesn't take into account burst values though. Being able to unload five rockets in a single go can outweigh the lower overall DPS."
Oh you misguided fool.
Actually, it doesn't. You might think it would, but not at all. The important thing to find out here is when is the gun at it's prime. That is to say after the default launcher has fired its 4th rocket and before it reloads to fire a 5th rocket: how much time has passed, and how much extra damage were you able to do? (you'll note my DPS chart calculates this)
Default Launcher fires it's 4th rocket at 2.4s, fires it's 5th rocket at 5.96s, and deals 360 base damage in 4 rockets.
Cow Mangler 5000 fires it's 5th rocket at 3.2s, fires it's 6th rocket at 7.9s, and deals 405 base damage in 5 rockets.
This tells us that the cow mangler does the same damage until 3.2s, at which point it jumps up to +45dam over the default launcher, and stays at +45 until 5.96s, when the default launcher once again overtakes us.
At 1st this seems like a boon, right? CM5K deals +45 damage in a single clip. Great! But, it's not enough extra damage to kill anything. We killed the heavy at 300hp, but the now we're at 105dam, and that's not enough to kill a scout. The CM5K's 5th rocket is great if you missed(which is actually the same for all lower damage, larger clip weapons), or plan to spam at corners. Other than that, the rocket is a hoax.
--
Since you guys've been bitching so much. I added 3 additional charts: 1 missed rocket, 2 missed rockets & 3 missed rockets! You should be so proud.
Well, you can take a look at those charts, and ya know what you'll see? The exact same thing as on the previous charts, but with slightly smaller numbers.
Perfect Accuracy (base chart): Between 3.2s & 5.9s the CM5K outperforms by 45
1 Missed Rocket: Between 3.2s & 5.9s the CM5K outperforms by 54. Again, this is less than a shotgun blast, and since you can switch weapons in less time than it takes to fire another rocket, CM5K still doesn't make a difference.
2 Missed Rockets: Between 3.2s & 5.9s the CM5K outperforms by 63. Now this is 3dam more than a shotgun, but since you can switch weapons in less time than it takes to fire another rocket, CM5K still doesn't make a real difference.
3 Missed Rockets: Between 3.2s & 5.9s the CM5K outperforms by 72. This is where the CM5K actually makes a difference. But to be honest here, if you're only hitting 32.5% of the time, perhaps you should focus on accuracy a little more.
What does this say?: This says that while a regular rocket launcher may compensate for lower accuracy by having a shotgun available to switch to, the CM5K lessens your need for a shotgun. If you're focused on high accuracy, use the Direct Hit, if you're not so good at the aiming, use the Liberty Launcher to increase rocket speed, or the CM5K to compensate. Since you don't need the shotgun as much, feel free to use a Buff Banner (which actually fills faster, because of your Charged Shot) to make the most of your extra rocket.
Thursday, July 21, 2011
Scout Damage Comparison - WITH 100% AS MANY GRAPHS AS LAST TIME!
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq1-k7-iRV1ZdEZVbE5BRW4ycS16UmJlMndFT1AyWkE&hl=en_US
(Like usual grey background is default gun, red text indicates it outperforms the default gun, and highlighting indicates it's the best gun. This time however, you will notice the addition of Purple text, which indicates the gun is firing mini-crits. You will also notice the addition of combos. Since Scouts thrive so heavily on hit & run tactics, you're few & far in between going to actually fire more than a full clip off. It was important therefore to include combos. This is a long parenthesis, and I should probably put this is a real paragraph. Nah, fuck it.)
1st lets go over secondaries
Pistol: This gun is the best choice in almost all situations. Be careful not to spam it though. You don;t have that much ammo.
Winger: This weapon is fucking retarded. That's right. The math tells me that. Seriously though, if your opponent has between 76-85 health, then this is your gun. Otherwise, lets wait till Valve buffs it.
Primary Time!
Scattergun: Unfortunately, this gun is outperformed by every other gun at killing a single enemy of less than 200 health. But, if you're planning on fighting Soldiers or Heavies without having to time your hype meter, then this is your gun. While over time all other guns outperform it, the large clip size lets it outperform at killing a bruiser.
Shortstop: If your enemy has 150 or 175hp, then this gun is the best bet. Not only does it pack just enough punch to take out medium health enemies quickly, but it also can be used from far away, out of range of the Pyro fire, Demos grenades, or Medics needles. Great for picking off a medic quickly without incurring their patients wrath.
F.A.N: The FANs quick firing speed, but slow reload makes it great for taking out enemies with 125hp and less, but poor at killing the tougher enemies. Now, one aspect of this gun that cannot be represented in in a simple chart is the knockback. In addition to being a scout/spy killer, this gun also gives you a triple jump, and allows you to blow back dangerous heavies/pyros/demos/soldiers long enough for you to escape. One of my favorite guns, for sure.
Soda Popper: While at 1st glance, this gun doesn't seem like much, it outperforms every other gun in every category, but only while the hype meter is full. If you can time this gun properly it is truly a beast, better at killing low hp classes even than a heavy. When not hyped up, it still kills a soldier faster than the default gun, but not by much.
COMBO TIME! Now, 2 of your guns only have 2 shots, and they take forever to reload. A common practice to compensate for that reload time is to switch weapons. While switching weapons does take some time, it automatically fills your clip, and allows you to change engagement zone from point blank to medium, when the pistol is more appropriate.
What we see here is further evidence that the Winger blows. Seriously, don't use it. We also see the true strength of the Soda Popper: The ability to grant mini crits to other weapons. When it comes to killing a single enemy of 150hp or less, any combo on the board outperforms a Sascha Heavy. Now that is am achievement worth being proud of.
(Like usual grey background is default gun, red text indicates it outperforms the default gun, and highlighting indicates it's the best gun. This time however, you will notice the addition of Purple text, which indicates the gun is firing mini-crits. You will also notice the addition of combos. Since Scouts thrive so heavily on hit & run tactics, you're few & far in between going to actually fire more than a full clip off. It was important therefore to include combos. This is a long parenthesis, and I should probably put this is a real paragraph. Nah, fuck it.)
1st lets go over secondaries
Pistol: This gun is the best choice in almost all situations. Be careful not to spam it though. You don;t have that much ammo.
Winger: This weapon is fucking retarded. That's right. The math tells me that. Seriously though, if your opponent has between 76-85 health, then this is your gun. Otherwise, lets wait till Valve buffs it.
Primary Time!
Scattergun: Unfortunately, this gun is outperformed by every other gun at killing a single enemy of less than 200 health. But, if you're planning on fighting Soldiers or Heavies without having to time your hype meter, then this is your gun. While over time all other guns outperform it, the large clip size lets it outperform at killing a bruiser.
Shortstop: If your enemy has 150 or 175hp, then this gun is the best bet. Not only does it pack just enough punch to take out medium health enemies quickly, but it also can be used from far away, out of range of the Pyro fire, Demos grenades, or Medics needles. Great for picking off a medic quickly without incurring their patients wrath.
F.A.N: The FANs quick firing speed, but slow reload makes it great for taking out enemies with 125hp and less, but poor at killing the tougher enemies. Now, one aspect of this gun that cannot be represented in in a simple chart is the knockback. In addition to being a scout/spy killer, this gun also gives you a triple jump, and allows you to blow back dangerous heavies/pyros/demos/soldiers long enough for you to escape. One of my favorite guns, for sure.
Soda Popper: While at 1st glance, this gun doesn't seem like much, it outperforms every other gun in every category, but only while the hype meter is full. If you can time this gun properly it is truly a beast, better at killing low hp classes even than a heavy. When not hyped up, it still kills a soldier faster than the default gun, but not by much.
COMBO TIME! Now, 2 of your guns only have 2 shots, and they take forever to reload. A common practice to compensate for that reload time is to switch weapons. While switching weapons does take some time, it automatically fills your clip, and allows you to change engagement zone from point blank to medium, when the pistol is more appropriate.
What we see here is further evidence that the Winger blows. Seriously, don't use it. We also see the true strength of the Soda Popper: The ability to grant mini crits to other weapons. When it comes to killing a single enemy of 150hp or less, any combo on the board outperforms a Sascha Heavy. Now that is am achievement worth being proud of.
Heavy Damage Comparison - NOW WITH 100% MORE CHARTS!
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq1-k7-iRV1ZdGxXSXFzUjItaXI5M2NuV0tYTVdxZFE&hl=en_US
(Like usual grey background is default gun, red text indicates it outperforms the default gun, and highlighting indicates it's the best gun.)
Prompted by the addition of the Tomislav (the 1st time, pre-nerf) into the Heavy's arsenal, I decided to create a Damage Comparison Chart to find out how overpowered it really was. The answer: Moderately. The Tomislav was better at killing everything with a collective health of less than 1250. In case you're wondering "What's that?" 1250hp is two overhealed heavies, two medics, and a spy weilding the kunai who has taken a fall from the 2fort battlements. Also, 1250 is A LOT.
Luckily they nerfed the gun, and it got a lot better.
Now, onto the good part, the meat of the subject, and why you're reading my ramblings: What the maths tell us. So, I ran 3 different DOT(Damage over time) charts: Not spun-up, spun-up, and jump & spin(when a heavy defensively jump around a corner while spinning up mid-air, Just in Case). To be perfectly honest I expected everything I saw here. Let's do them by gun.
Sascha (Default Minigun): This gun only ever tops the chart between 2.5s & 3.5s(2s-3s for Jump & Spin), and is best at killing 750 hp of enemies(1 overhealed heavy and 2 medics). However, Sascha places 2nd in every single category. If you don't know if you're gonna be on attack or defense at any given second, then Sascha is still the best gun.
Natascha: This gun outperforms only the shotgun (and the brass beast at killing a scout who suddenly appears). The data doesn't tell us when this gun excels, because it never really does. From what I can tell, the only time you should use this is when your opponents are scout rushing, and you're the 3rd heavy. IMHO, this gun needs a boost badly.
Brass Beast: When dealing with 1000hp+ worth of enemies(1 overhealed heavy, 1 medic, and 2 soldiers), or when spun up and waiting are when this gun truly shines. If you're defending a choke point, control point, sitting on the intel, or even on forward defense(where you plop your fat ass on an allied teleporter while the engie builds his sentry) you should be using the Brass Beast.
Tomislav: Best on the move. If you ever stop to stay spun-up, and don't plan on firing that bad boy immediately, you are wasting the advantage this gun brings to the table. This is the best gun against surprise scouts(or any number of enemies with 600hp or less), and over a short time. If ever you are forced into a situation where you have to chose between staying spun up for more than 2sec or running away... RUN AWAY! Get em when they follow you around the corner. Tomislav is the best ambush gun, and should only be used to defend if absolutely necessary. (BTW, this is my fav gun.)
Oh yeah, I also did the default gun vs the family business, but it's a bit weak right now, so I'm sure I'll be updating this chart soonish.
(Like usual grey background is default gun, red text indicates it outperforms the default gun, and highlighting indicates it's the best gun.)
Prompted by the addition of the Tomislav (the 1st time, pre-nerf) into the Heavy's arsenal, I decided to create a Damage Comparison Chart to find out how overpowered it really was. The answer: Moderately. The Tomislav was better at killing everything with a collective health of less than 1250. In case you're wondering "What's that?" 1250hp is two overhealed heavies, two medics, and a spy weilding the kunai who has taken a fall from the 2fort battlements. Also, 1250 is A LOT.
Luckily they nerfed the gun, and it got a lot better.
Now, onto the good part, the meat of the subject, and why you're reading my ramblings: What the maths tell us. So, I ran 3 different DOT(Damage over time) charts: Not spun-up, spun-up, and jump & spin(when a heavy defensively jump around a corner while spinning up mid-air, Just in Case). To be perfectly honest I expected everything I saw here. Let's do them by gun.
Sascha (Default Minigun): This gun only ever tops the chart between 2.5s & 3.5s(2s-3s for Jump & Spin), and is best at killing 750 hp of enemies(1 overhealed heavy and 2 medics). However, Sascha places 2nd in every single category. If you don't know if you're gonna be on attack or defense at any given second, then Sascha is still the best gun.
Natascha: This gun outperforms only the shotgun (and the brass beast at killing a scout who suddenly appears). The data doesn't tell us when this gun excels, because it never really does. From what I can tell, the only time you should use this is when your opponents are scout rushing, and you're the 3rd heavy. IMHO, this gun needs a boost badly.
Brass Beast: When dealing with 1000hp+ worth of enemies(1 overhealed heavy, 1 medic, and 2 soldiers), or when spun up and waiting are when this gun truly shines. If you're defending a choke point, control point, sitting on the intel, or even on forward defense(where you plop your fat ass on an allied teleporter while the engie builds his sentry) you should be using the Brass Beast.
Tomislav: Best on the move. If you ever stop to stay spun-up, and don't plan on firing that bad boy immediately, you are wasting the advantage this gun brings to the table. This is the best gun against surprise scouts(or any number of enemies with 600hp or less), and over a short time. If ever you are forced into a situation where you have to chose between staying spun up for more than 2sec or running away... RUN AWAY! Get em when they follow you around the corner. Tomislav is the best ambush gun, and should only be used to defend if absolutely necessary. (BTW, this is my fav gun.)
Oh yeah, I also did the default gun vs the family business, but it's a bit weak right now, so I'm sure I'll be updating this chart soonish.
TF2 Basic Damage Comparison
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq1-k7-iRV1ZdDVxZEt6NzZkMnU4a1pwV211cXUxbGc&hl=en_US
This is a spreadsheet I made a while back to showcase the difference in damage between the classes. It shows Damage Over Time (at Point Blank, Medium, and Far Ranges), and Time to Kill different health levels. The Red numbers are the best at that category.
So we see pretty much what we'd expect. For the most part Heavy dominated the Damage Over Time(DOT) chart. He is followed by Pyro, Demo, Medic/Soldier(who are actually tied for 4th), Spy & finally Scout/Engie(Tied for last). At Point Blank, we see the Heavy & Pyro still topping the chart, but rest of the crew follow thusly: Scout, Spy, Soldier, Engie/Medic & Demo trails well behind. At far range, the Heavy still dominates, for the rest we see: Demo, Soldier, Medic, Spy, Scout/Engie/Pyro(pyro is incapable of operating except with a shotgun/flaregun).
However, a funny thing happens when we look at the "Time to Kill Enemies with Health #" chart (which personally reminds me of ThAC0, or TNtbH, hehe), and the front end of the DOT chart, we notice a few interesting things. Anything less than an overhealed Heavy is best killed by a Demo at long range(Grenade Launchers aren't subject to falloff).
If you're someone who loves your maths like I do, you can learn the whole game just by reviewing the data. What this study tells me is mostly what we already know: That scouts are best at point blank attacks on targets with less than 210 health (while yes, Demo/Soldier deal more damage at this range, splash damage hurts them, and they have no way to flee), Heavy is best against large groups, and Demo's are more effective than anything else at killing things far away from them.
The one thing I really learned from this study: Medic deal more damage than soldiers over 3.5+ seconds. Spam that syringe gun!
Thanks for reading, let me know what you think!
This is a spreadsheet I made a while back to showcase the difference in damage between the classes. It shows Damage Over Time (at Point Blank, Medium, and Far Ranges), and Time to Kill different health levels. The Red numbers are the best at that category.
So we see pretty much what we'd expect. For the most part Heavy dominated the Damage Over Time(DOT) chart. He is followed by Pyro, Demo, Medic/Soldier(who are actually tied for 4th), Spy & finally Scout/Engie(Tied for last). At Point Blank, we see the Heavy & Pyro still topping the chart, but rest of the crew follow thusly: Scout, Spy, Soldier, Engie/Medic & Demo trails well behind. At far range, the Heavy still dominates, for the rest we see: Demo, Soldier, Medic, Spy, Scout/Engie/Pyro(pyro is incapable of operating except with a shotgun/flaregun).
However, a funny thing happens when we look at the "Time to Kill Enemies with Health #" chart (which personally reminds me of ThAC0, or TNtbH, hehe), and the front end of the DOT chart, we notice a few interesting things. Anything less than an overhealed Heavy is best killed by a Demo at long range(Grenade Launchers aren't subject to falloff).
If you're someone who loves your maths like I do, you can learn the whole game just by reviewing the data. What this study tells me is mostly what we already know: That scouts are best at point blank attacks on targets with less than 210 health (while yes, Demo/Soldier deal more damage at this range, splash damage hurts them, and they have no way to flee), Heavy is best against large groups, and Demo's are more effective than anything else at killing things far away from them.
The one thing I really learned from this study: Medic deal more damage than soldiers over 3.5+ seconds. Spam that syringe gun!
Thanks for reading, let me know what you think!
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